U.S. Must Tell Ukraine No to Joining NATO

[birdwatcher]

Doug Bandow @ cato.org -- Some Ukrainians may imagine that NATO would protect them from Vladimir Putin. But if the consequence was a full-blown war, as is likely, it would be a disaster for Ukraine. [...] The most dangerous alliance illusion is that if NATO would just demonstrate “resolve” the Russian invaders would turn tail and race back to Moscow. [...] Better for all to seek a negotiated settlement. Kiev decentralizing power, separatists accepting its formal authority, Ukraine acquiescing to Crimea’s separation, Russia holding an internationally monitored referendum, Kiev forbearing military ties to NATO and the U.S., the allies dropping sanctions, Moscow accepting a united Ukraine looking both east and west economically.

ППКС кроме международных наблюдателей на референдуме. Совершенно излишни, только обнаружат массовые фальсификации и вернемся к исходной точке.

Comments

[aguti.livejournal.com]

Хм. Интересно, а какой такой логикой вы пришли к выводу, что обе стороны конфликта "thugs and thieves"? Украина ничего у России не украла. Так что thugs and thieves присутствуют только с одной стороны.

[averros.livejournal.com]

There is only one logic. Everything else is bullshit. And the logic is as following:

1. Threatening people with violence to take money from them against their will is a crime, if done by single robber. (The usual assumption that the victim is innocent and didn't do any harm to anyone applies).

2. Adding one more robber to the exiting one or group does not change the fact that the act in 1 is still a crime.

3. It follows that no matter how many people threaten you to take your money away against your will they are still robbers.

4. One act of robbery makes the perpetrator a crminal.

5. From 3 and 4 follows that it is sufficient for a group of people of any arbitrary size to threaten one innocent person with violence to take away his money, they are robbers.

6. Any government is a group of people, extracting money from subject against their will by threatening them with violence (forcible taking of the property, arrest (aka kidnapping), jailing, and ultimately murder if the victims resist). It follows that any government is just a band of thieves and robbers writ large.

Now, why exactly are you supporting a group of people robbing and otherwise abusing you (for example by claiming the right to murder you if you violate some rule they impose on you)? This is a classical clinical definition of the Stockholm syndrome - self-identifying with the captors. I'm sorry that you suffer from it, because if you weren't you'd see that the logic of the above statements is both correct and the premises are undeniable, so the conclusion must be correct as well. If you want to know, this conclusion was known to any educated person since St. Augustine (I don't expect familiarity with the unpopular these days points of view, though).

[aguti.livejournal.com]

Я понимаю, что вам хочется поговорить про Стокгольмский синдром, но это мимо темы обсуждения. То, что вы плохо думаете о всех правительствах не отрицает тот факт, что Россия у Украины украла Крым, а Украина ничего у России не крала. Так что вор в этой ситуации один - Россия.
I'm sorry that you suffer from this.